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Talking to Scientologists

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Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:59 pm

Hi there. I'm new here and I'm posting to ask a question.

First of all, I have been watching a lot of your youtube videos and I want to say good job on your peaceful protesting and informing people about the dangers of CoS. I know you sometime need to defend against violent people and I salute your courage in going there each month for this good cause. Keep it up everyone !

I have been reading a lot about Scientology, Anonymous and the controversy. This cult is now exposed on some major TV networks, so good job on contributing to bring this injustice to the eyes of a wide audience.

As you know, the people you are protesting against are also victims, except for the very high leaders. And they are brainwashed to doubt and shut themselves from criticism from SP. I am sure you have witnessed this yourself. Now that the public seems to become more aware of this whole thing, I was wondering what is being done to help current Scientologists who do not yet realise what they are into.

From what I understand, this is probably not part of Anonymus' "general mission" (I don't know what's a better way to describe it). But I would still like to get your opinion on this :

I was thinking of going in the church as an interested customer to avoid triggering their "SP sensors" and try leading them to doubt their cult. I'm talking about planting the seed of doubt in these people's heads, to at least make them curious about all the info out there against Scientology. It would require some very clever speech and I know it has very little chance of success.

I want to know if anyone has tried this, what are your thoughts on this, etc.

Feel free to tell me this ain't part of your protest and I'm not posting on the right forum. I honestly don't know where else to discuss this.

Anyway, hope to tty soon !

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guy_Fox on Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:14 pm

Believe me we thought about this. The problem is ever since Anon emerged, orgs are equipped with CCTV so that they have face shots of anyone even slightly suspected of being "Anonymous". And that's for the sole purpose of employing their Fair Game tactics - harassment, framing into made-up crimes, vandalism, bodily harm... So... not worth it.

We're very well aware of them being victims. Heck, most would actually be nice people. The Tokyo cell made a comic about it, we've helped a little bit with reference material:

Original: http://xenu.jp/ac3_disconnect_01_ja.pdf
English: http://xenu.jp/ac3_disconnect_01_en.pdf

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:26 pm

OK thanks for your reply.

I really wouldn't talk anonymous-related stuff. Not talking about the websites, keeping it as far as possible from typical Anonymous dialogue, and being the regular-critical-guy-who's-asking-reasonable-questions.

Thanks for the warning.

So you thought about this, as it been tried at all ?

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:19 pm

Just to clarify one thing :

I am not talking about infiltration here. I am not proposing a plan of action for Anonymous or anything.

I want to see how they respond to critical thinking when it isn't coming from a known SP. Going on great optimism I can manage to plant doubt...

I know this probably doesn't have a huge potential impact, still if you want to give me any advice or discuss the idea please reply in what you find is the most appropriate way.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guest on Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:25 am

randommtlguy wrote: try leading them to doubt their cult. I'm talking about planting the seed of doubt in these people's heads, to at least make them curious about all the info out there against Scientology. It would require some very clever speech and I know it has very little chance of success !

Here is an advice from the collective of experienced anons, don't even think about it.
The scis are VERY paranoid. They have barbwire fences around their parking lot (which is verifiable if you have to balls to approach their CCTV system parking lot). They constantly try to take pictures of us for 3 years, yet failed miserably. The best advice is don't fuck around their orgs. Someone in our group lost their job because of the scis. Don't become another statistic of their fair game policy.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:09 am

Thanks for the advice Johnny.

I will definetely reconsider. No matter how politically correct and non-confrontational I act, I guess it still puts my identity at serious risk.

That sucks though... I mean I can walk in a church and chat to a preist aboit his beliefs respectfully right...

Still I'm thinking that at this time, with all the negative exposure they have seen from mainstream media, FBI, ex-scientologists, etc, their illegal methods would weaken. They got a lot on their plates already with Anonymous, lawsuits and whatnot, they won't harrass this one new guy ?

I guess I'm being dellusional and way too optimistic...

Side note:
Anyone knows the best way to complain to the Governement about their religion status ?

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guy_Fox on Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:16 am

randommtlguy wrote:
Still I'm thinking that at this time, with all the negative exposure they have seen from mainstream media, FBI, ex-scientologists, etc, their illegal methods would weaken. They got a lot on their plates already with Anonymous, lawsuits and whatnot, they won't harrass this one new guy ?

I guess I'm being dellusional and way too optimistic...

The thing is, you can't apply logic to a cult. They will follow Hubbard's writings to the letter, no matter how ludicrous doing so is in a given situation. Even with the ground on fire under their feet, they will still collect data and hound you till the ends of the Earth, trying to sell you their "services" if you're not a threat or trying to destroy your life with lies and litigation if you were critical of the cult in any way. Hubbard told them to do so, and Hubbard is "infallible", so there you have it.

Also, they're naturally not fond of anyone who creates dount, as it's considered a "lower condition" (crime) within the cult. There would be only a slight chance the affected person would act upon it, more likely they will run crying to their auditor to receive more processing and erase the doubt. In the end, your data would end up on the plate, too.

Add David Miscavige's paranoia into the mix and it gets even creepier.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:26 am

Yeah I hear you.

But how can they keep up with everyone who is being critical now ? J.E.'s report with hidden cameras must take up a lot of their legal dpt attention. It must have reached a wide audience of people who do not fear them, which could lead more individuals from the public to come and stick their nose in their business.

They gotta be in over their head trying to harass everyone who's criticizing them now !

Now that the public grows more aware of this cult, what is a good course of action for people who want to express their concern to the Governement ?

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by MNetAvecLunetteFumee on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:35 pm

Be nice with politicians, "become friend with them". When they listen to you, tell them. What I understood is that dianetic is a very strong way to manipulate people... and people are easy to manipulate. From my point of view, if Anon keep up the good works, the co$ will close in 27 years and 8 mouths.

The only way you can safely go in a cos to put douth in the mind of scifags would be to be a suicidal homeless dude... I am almost at this point, but I still want to protect my computer, my bed and my clothes... and I don't want to sucide, lol.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by MNetAvecLunetteFumee on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:37 pm

If you do it, don't do it twice (I mean enter in the church to speak to scifags)

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:55 pm

Hi MNet

Are you saying that politicians in Quebec might be under the influence of Co$ ? From what I say from J.E. the lady politician (a senator?) seemed to openly express her opinion about it.

I'm talking about a citizen movement to protest against their governement advantages. Petition might be risky but befriending politicians is a bit complicated... has someone ever officially contacted the governement about this ?

For sure I can't go in there twice, not only is it risky but it can open the door to harrassment acusations.

About you being almost homeless and stuff. How did it happen ? I know the general scheme of false accusations and harassment but like, really what did they do to get you to that point ? When did it start ? What defense did you attempt ? What did you do to piss them off precisely ? (I know you can't share much but I wanna know like, what type of actions I dunno... feel free to PM)

Thanks for your reply and take care

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Ordo Xenous on Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:15 pm

You can walk in the org and ask questions then simply see the state of things for yourself. Although they might be worried about J.E., they still have a stat of new public to raise to 1. If you simply ask honest question and express concerns of abuse story you've heard, they're not going to follow you home. Although they might get you out the door if you bring up OT3 materials (Xenu), there's no point in going after new public.

Doing that, you might see that they're not bad people, just terribly misguided.

You don't have to give your name out if you don't want to. Just don't bring your wallet with you.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:33 pm

Thanks for the advice.

Yeah that is the sort of approach I want. I'm really not aiming for confrontation. Definetely won't talk about OT3, I'm in their church and it could legitimately turn them hostile

In the videos a lot of Anons ask very good questions. I have also read discussions between Scions and non-scions on forums... and what I hate is how they always have their easy escape (hater, you know nothing, show your face, etc). I want to know how they react when they can't do that. Try to make them think for themselves...

>they still have a stat of new public to raise to 1
I don't understand what you're saying

Good to know I won't necessarily be harrassed if I don't confront them. That's the kind of input I was looking for.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Ordo Xenous on Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:34 am

Oh, well, the churches function on statistics. Let's say your job is to write letters to people, then you have to keep track of how many letters you wrote and you get your balls busted every week if you didn't produce better than the previous week.

One of the statistic they track is "new public", meaning people who came in the org and did the personality test. They're probably desperate to get people to do so and what I'm insinuating is that it's at 0.

As an aside, I have done this with people and lot of them will simply say that you have commited crimes and ignore any bad things you say.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:00 am

Ok thanks for clarifying that.

When you say you done this with people... do you mean talking to scions the way I'm describing it ?

And when they say you commited crimes they didn't like press charges or whatever, correct ?

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guy_Fox on Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:31 am

randommtlguy wrote:Ok thanks for clarifying that.

When you say you done this with people... do you mean talking to scions the way I'm describing it ?

And when they say you commited crimes they didn't like press charges or whatever, correct ?

When they say that they mean it literally. To put it simply, in their dogmatic view anyone who dares to criticize scientology must be a criminal because, they believe, only criminals are afraid of the "good" that scientology is doing and thus oppose it. That's why one of their favorite lines they use to block out whatever you're saying and outshout you is "WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES?" - it's so common and so typical it's become something of a running gag among Anons.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Thu Apr 28, 2011 1:56 am

Haha yeah I saw that, it's hilarious. I've been laughing my ass off with all those Anon videos where scions are doing all their retarded stuff !

As long as they don't start getting all over me in a serious way if I just come and talk I'm not too worried.

btw did ppl ever press charges against some scions ? Sometimes Anons get physically assaulted by these people, on tape. Isn't there something that can be done ? Seems like you got a rock solid case there.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guy_Fox on Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:39 am

randommtlguy wrote:Haha yeah I saw that, it's hilarious. I've been laughing my ass off with all those Anon videos where scions are doing all their retarded stuff !

As long as they don't start getting all over me in a serious way if I just come and talk I'm not too worried.

btw did ppl ever press charges against some scions ? Sometimes Anons get physically assaulted by these people, on tape. Isn't there something that can be done ? Seems like you got a rock solid case there.

The one time we did (a femanon being molested, as I recall) the scis got hold of the personals she gave to the cops. Filming over the shoulder, I've heard. She's the one who lost her job due to scis spreading slander and propaganda.

What good would pressing charges do, really? Ultimately it all leads to revealed identity. This is exactly what they want, and this is exactly why they try so hard. They want us to press charges so that they can get our names. That goal, in their eyes, justifies the sacrifices they'd have to make. It's frustrating, believe me, but we're used to it and we manage just fine on our own Smile

But if your identity isn't a secret anymore, then by all means, have at it and pwn them utterly Smile

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:52 am

Fuck man that's terrible (I'm assuming you're not talking sexual molestation 8-O)

I would've thought once the police is contacted and has hard evidence you kinda got some shield... but what happened with the case ? Did you drop the charges ?

I gotta say I'm impressed by all the protestors. All the vids I saw, no matter where they came from, showed the same ethics from anons. Knowing what they're trying to blame on you, the slightest wrong behavior would be used to accuse you of terrorism lol. It's really impressive seing how ppl IRL respect the general code of conduct.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by star eht on Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:39 am

Guy_Fox wrote:
randommtlguy wrote:Haha yeah I saw that, it's hilarious. I've been laughing my ass off with all those Anon videos where scions are doing all their retarded stuff !

As long as they don't start getting all over me in a serious way if I just come and talk I'm not too worried.

btw did ppl ever press charges against some scions ? Sometimes Anons get physically assaulted by these people, on tape. Isn't there something that can be done ? Seems like you got a rock solid case there.

The one time we did (a femanon being molested, as I recall) the scis got hold of the personals she gave to the cops. Filming over the shoulder, I've heard. She's the one who lost her job due to scis spreading slander and propaganda.

What good would pressing charges do, really? Ultimately it all leads to revealed identity. This is exactly what they want, and this is exactly why they try so hard. They want us to press charges so that they can get our names. That goal, in their eyes, justifies the sacrifices they'd have to make. It's frustrating, believe me, but we're used to it and we manage just fine on our own Smile

But if your identity isn't a secret anymore, then by all means, have at it and pwn them utterly Smile

to clarify, a hobo was annoying the group way back at one protest, trying to flirt and eventually gropped a femanon boobs, cops were passing by the street back the alley behind the Sci building, we called them so they can take care of him. The cops told the femanon the hobo was known to the police department and often cause trouble and that if she press charge it will at least keep him off the street and give a rest to the neibourghood.

She agreed to press charge, but to do so she had to give her info to do so, wich she did, the problem was they were still in the alley next to the building and the Sci who was on 2nd floor watching Us must have heard the info, leading to our only fair game so far.

She started being followed by a group of 4 mens, her job started getting 'clients' complaint even if she wasen't even working with them, and complaints apparently contained even her nickname she only use at the protest. New job maybe and a boss who didn't want trouble decided to let her go, we saw her a few times here and there. but she pretty much kept a low profile since then. No news lately.

This is what i recall happened, i know an article passed in 'The Gazette' about this too at one point, i think

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by randommtlguy on Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:25 pm

Damn, the charges weren't even against them. Hope that shit stopped eventually.

I looked on the gazette website but didn't find anyhing. If anyone has a link I would find interesting seeing what was the media exposure of this.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by star eht on Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:44 pm

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/montreal-anonymous-is-fair-gamed-by-cos-loses-her-job-stalked.18039/
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/montreal-gazette-campaign-of-harassment-or-just-a-wild-imagination.21635/
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/young-woman-fair-gamed-in-montreal.18351/

you may find a link about this somewhere in these threads about said incident

edit: here
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/saturdayextra/story.html?id=96c0449e-b546-4035-9d70-eea82c8b7753

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Guy_Fox on Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:01 am

Somewhat related - excellent read that explains just how far the tentacles of scientology will go:

http://princejesse53.blogspot.com/2011/04/finale-here-it-is-for-you-now.html

Very long, but very worth it.

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Rookie_One on Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:50 pm

AFAIK, only two people got their identity revealed to the scilon here

anonymiss, which is the case stated earlier, and me.

In my case I live too far for them to find anything useful against me (i'm the lone 819 guy lol! )

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

Post by Ordo Xenous on Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:03 pm

How did yours get revealed?

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Re: Talking to Scientologists

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